If you want to get published, you need to be aware that major New York publishers are looking for a specific word count, depending on your genre. Your fantasy novel word count needs to be different than your YA Fiction book, which has a different word count from a romance novel and other books.
How many words are in a novel? Or at least one in which publishers might be interested? In this post, we're going to explain word count and how it affects your chances of publishing success.
Ready to write your novel? Check out our definitive guide, How To Write Write a Novel: The Complete Guide, here.
How long is the average book? How long should your book be? And should you even care about word counts? Let's break it down.
Why Word Count Matters
You might question whether or not word count matters.
Whether you are self-publishing or traditional publishing, the word count ranges vary for different genres for different genres, and it's important for you to meet word count guidelines in order to satisfy reader and publisher expectations.
Although best-selling writers can get away with longer books, most writers, especially those writing and publishing a first book, need to stick to the standard book length for their genre.
Sure, there are exceptions: epic fantasy novels, for instance, can get really long. But even those stories have an average word count that shouldn't be overlooked.
Long books aren't bad books, and novellas or short stories don't make for less impressive stories. But too little or too many words can throw a reader.
Best of all, the constraint of a word count requirement might actually improve your story. While every writer has trouble killing their darlings, trimming down a long first draft might be just what the editor ordered.
Why You Should Write to Word Count
Right now I'm obsessed with a novel/web serial called Worm. It's by an author who goes by the pen name Wildbow. The novel is 1.75 million words long, the equivalent of about 7,000 pages, give or take. When I first opened it on my Kindle, it said it would take 110 hours to read.
This novel is too long to publish, at least by a traditional New York publisher.
I'm telling you this because I want you to know publishers are particular and risk averse when making a book deal. They want books to look a certain way, be a certain length, fit a certain target audience
Does that mean you shouldn't write your million-word epic of a novel? No, you absolutely should. But only if you're open to not getting published traditionally.
Sure, there are caveats.
Sometimes, publishers are so taken with a book that they're willing to take a risk on a book that's too long or too short. Fantasy and Sci Fi stories are the most likely to fall into this exception list, and there are plenty above the word count that have gone on to become bestsellers.
However, with the way the market is going right now, the number of risks traditional publishers are willing to take is shrinking more and more.
Second, there's a reason publishers look for books of these lengths. Publishers think books of this length sell the best.
They may be wrong or shortsighted, but they've been doing this a long time, and it's at least a good idea to keep them in mind.
Books of certain lengths have proven to engage readers, and thanks to self-published authors selling on Amazon, so have books outside those lengths.
Why You Should Count Words, Not Pages
Most people think in terms of pages, not words. So why does the publishing industry speak in word counts?
Because page length can vary widely. If the font is a bit smaller or the margins are a bit wider or the page size is a bit larger, it will result in a completely different page count.
If the publishing industry spoke about page numbers, the number would constantly change depending on the stage the book was in. Word count, on the other hand, stays pretty much the same.
How Long is the Average Book?
Books can be as short as 25,000 words, around 100 pages, or as long as 3 million words, or about 1,000 pages. Nonfiction books tend to be shorter, around 45,000 words on average, and novels tend to be longer, around 80,000 words on average.
However, book length varies widely between genres, among authors, and based on the content of the book. There is no standardized rule—although traditional publishers and literary agents are likely to favor a book that is within the average word count for its genre.
As a general rule of thumb, the sweet spot for a novel is 90,000 words.
But what's the average word count for each type of story?
Let's break it down by genre.
Novel Length Guidelines
A novel is usually defined as anything over 40,000 words. There's technically no max length to a novel. Although if it's over 110,000 words, some may call it an epic, not a novel.
Famous novels have been extremely long, like 530,000 words for Victor Hugo's Les Miserables or 420,000 words for George R.R. Martin's A Dance With Dragons.
Novels can also be extremely short, like Ernest Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea, which is just 26,000 words.
The number of words in a typical novel (i.e. publishable novel) varies depending on the genre.
It also might change based on when it was published. Consider the length of a contemporary book compared to a title by Charles Dickens, who was paid per word and therefore far more motivated to write longer stories.
General Fiction/Literary Fiction Word Count
Ideal word count: 90,000 words
Most traditionally published novels for adults are about 90,000 words. They can go as high as 110,000 words. However, longer than that is too long for most publishers, especially if you're a first time author. 70,000 words or less are usually too short for the average publisher.
You might also consider the category of the book, or the age group typically reading it. Middle grade books, for instance, will fall shorter than adult fiction, probably around 60,000 words.
40,000 words is considered a novella.
And short stories can run anywhere from 1,500 words to 7,000.
Children's books and picture books will have the lowest word count of all (note: most picture books as a category still have words, but pictures dominate the page).
Again, this doesn't necessarily apply if you've already published a bestseller. Publishing Houses, at that point, may be far less concerned with specific word counts than they are about the ideas and storyline.
Science Fiction and Fantasy Novel Word Count
Ideal word count: 100,000 to 110,000 words
Sci-fi novels and fantasy books usually run longer than general fiction. Why? Here are three (unconfirmed) theories:
- Perhaps sci-fi/fantasy readers are more inclined to bear with a longer story
- There's a chance that the amount of world building required in a good fantasy novel demands a longer book
- Or maybe these novels tend to be part of a series, readers are more bought in and are looking for a longer continuation of the story
Science fiction and fantasy novels typically have a word count between 90,000 to 125,000 words. The sweet spot, according to Donald Maas, is 100,000 to 115,000 words.
This goes for debut novels and seasoned writers.
YA Fantasy novels, too.
Consider how J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, which is drastically shorter than the later books in the series starting after The Goblet of Fire.
Part of the reason for this is that Harry Potter actually jumps from middle grade to young adult in the series, and they're also longer because Rowling was selling millions of books by the end of the series.
Rowling had proven that readers were going to read her stories regardless of their length. I'll give an exact word count difference in her books later in this post.
Mystery Novel Word Count
Ideal word count: 80,000 words
I found some disagreement about the ideal length of mystery novels.
Traditionally, mystery novels have tended to be on the shorter side. Agatha Christie, the best-selling mystery writer of all time, wrote novels that averaged about 40,000 to 60,000 words.
However, most agents and writers say your mystery novel should be the same word count as general fiction, 80,000 to 90,000 words. If in doubt, shoot for 80,000 words.
Young Adult Novel Word Count
Ideal word count: 65,000 words
Young adult novels have a wide variation in lengths.
I mentioned J.K. Rowling earlier in this post. She started with shorter novels—The Sorcerer's Stone was 76,000 words—perhaps because her editors were restricting.
As she gained their trust, her novels ballooned. The longest is The Order of the Phoenix with a word count of 257,000 words.
Outside YA Fantasy, however, it's unlikely that YA Fiction will run to such a length. For examples look to the YA Fiction leaders in the publishing world like John Green, Angie Thomas, Adam Silvera, and Becky Albertalli.
If you've read any of these authors books, you know that the length of a book does not determine a book's quality. Most of their books fall within the average YA Fiction word count length, and they're glorious.
(For YA Fantasy fans, look to Suzanne Collins, Cassandra Claire, Sabba Tahir, and Maggie Steifvater, among others.)
Overall, most young adult novels fall between 55,000 and 70,000 words.
Longer books don't mean higher quality stories.
Memoir Word Count
Ideal word count: 80,000 words
Like a general fiction novel, a good target word count for a memoir is 80,000 words. 70,000 words is probably too short and 100,000 words or more is too long.
Does Word Count Really Matter in Novels?
Well, as publishers matter less and less, in some respects, word counts matter less and less. Today, successful authors are publishing 30 or 50 or 80,000 word novels as part of huge serials spanning a dozen or more books.
Others, like Wildbow, whom I mentioned earlier, are writing epic books of a million words or more that take months to read.
Publishers are sticking with their word count lengths, but in the Wild West that is the publishing marketplace right now, the idea word count is largely up for grabs.
I hope this helps you be more informed about word count in the publishing industry, but the rule is:
First, write a great story. Worry about your word count on the second draft.
What about you? Do you think about the word count as you write? Let me know in the comments.
PRACTICE
Choose three novels you enjoy and count the words. Here's how: first, count how many words are on an average page (you can count the average words in a line, then multiply by the number of lines), then multiply that number by the number of pages. This will give you a rough estimate of the word count.
What do you think? Do these word counts surprise you? Post your word count results in the comments below and discuss your findings with a few other writers.
Alternate practice: Set the timer for 15 minutes and write a scene where a character discovers they have grossly miscalculated how much of something they need. Did they order 100 pounds of bananas on a grocery shopping app? Did they need 500 meters of rope and only had 50? What will they do?
Share your practice in the Pro Practice Workshop, and leave feedback for a few other writers. Not a member? Join us.
I track word count closely for my non-fiction books. I shoot for 75,000. I use the project tracking tool in Scrivener to give me a real time progress bar as I write. You can set the project total and a session total that resets every night at midnight.
On one project I set the session tracker to 5,000 words a day. After a 5-day sprint I am 1/3 done!
Project tracker! I need to try that. I’m new to Scrivener and am completely in love with it.
Changed my life! I had set aside a week to write UP and to the RIGHT. My wife and I traveled to Tennessee where there was a great B&B on a hill top that looked good for writing. The night before checking in we spent with friends. I was describing my ideal word processing program when I realized maybe I should google “word count tracking.” Found Srivener, watched a Youtube video, installed it, and wrote 25K words in five days.
Go to: Project > Show Project Targets
You can also track targets per chapter in a different screen.
I will do that!
I love that session tracker on Scrivener! BTW for those that don’t know how to get that setup on Scrivener, here’s a quick tutorial: https://thewritepractice.com/count-words/
Thanks Stiennon!
There are numerous times a reader will be disappointed by too short a book, whether a novel or an autobiography. One of my father’s religious best sellers was his autobiography, Wide Was His Parish. Tindale wanted to break it into two books but my father died. I prepared it and was one of the editors of that book and can tell you the book that was published was flat compared to the original.
Fascinating Mary. Thank you for sharing this!
Interesting. The word count of the three novels I chose – Red Wolf by Liza Marklund, The Shipping News by Annie Proulx, and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson – had a much higher word count than anything noted above (unless my math is off and that’s always a possibility). Red Wolf was 175,630 words long, The Shipping News was 186,160 words. And the late Stieg Larsson’s book, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, was 199,485 words long.
First, I love Annie Proulx and the Shipping News. Have you read her short fiction? Half-Skinned Steer is one of my favorites (you can find it free here: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/11/the-half-skinned-steer/306168/).
Thank you for sharing those book lengths!
Thanks so much Joe, for this detailed post on word count. I was hoping I’d get to know ideal word counts for novels, and now I have it all clearly explained by you.
I prefer shorter novels, of any genre, and check for a book of under 70 pages, as the word count is not indicated for e-books. Since I aim to finish reading a book in two sittings, a book over 70+ pages would be too long for me. With this in mind, I’m aiming to make my novel between 60,000 to 80,000 words.
‘The Old Man and the Sea’ is a good length book.
I feel you’re brave to tackle a book of 7000 pages. How long will it take you?
Happy reading!
Thank you for commenting Lilian. The Old Man and the Sea is actually quite short, about 26,000 words. It’s actually considered a novella, not a novel. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t write something that length. Just know that publishers generally think that’s too short. Hemingway had the advantage of being a bestselling author for 30 years by the time he wrote Old Man and the Sea. He could do whatever he wanted. So can you, just know that a publisher won’t necessarily support your efforts to do whatever you want.
Word count matters to me, but only as a means of measuring progress and setting up chapters. My first drafts routinely run 100,000 words or more. Since most of them are mysteries, that means a significant amount of editing.
I just read Agatha Christie’s The Man in the Brown Suit. According to your formula, it’s just over 92,000 words. If that count is correct, I am surprised but only because you said her novels were usually between 40,000 and 60,000 words. One caveat. I’m reading large print and the final page in each chapter is usually less than a full page of text. Taking those into account, word count would be closer to your figures.
I also enjoy Jan Karon’s Mitford series. The next book on my reading list is A New Song. It calculates out to almost 231,000 words. I am not surprised about that. it takes days to read one of her books, even at my usual rate of consumption.
Finally, a book club romance calculated at almost 80,000 words. I’m a little surprised. That seems a bit high.
I think The Man in the Brown Suit is closer to your number, Carrie. She tended to write shorter, but clearly she could write long as well. She’s the bestselling mystery writer of all time, though, so I’m not going to argue with her!
I totally agree that word count is important for measuring your progress and calculating chapters. Thanks for sharing that!
Although word count beats in me like a second pulse & I *never* (wholly) discount publisher-preference (& I agree that you’ve got the numbers right), but neither can I discount my own preferences. To me, a book of under 70,000 words is what I consider a novella. (I have one w/ beta readers at the moment @ 65,000.) But I suppose that’s just my personal approach to “truth in advertising.” My memoir, presently being published by a university press, is 120,000 words…but all of that is a result of what I read. I leave a lot of under-400ppg books on the bookstore shelves. At the same time, I *do* keep myself word-count-aware on both a day-to-day and length-of-the-work basis. I love writing as I wish…but I also like getting published.
It sounds like you’ve got a great approach. I don’t agree though that a novella is any book under 70,000 words. It’s traditionally defined as under 40,000 words. Still I get your point. 🙂
Very exciting about your memoir! University presses can afford to be much more “experimental,” but they also rarely sell many copies, unfortunately. Hopefully yours will be the exception!
I’ve been looking for this information for awhile, so thank you for giving it to me!
My main problem is words in a scene. For some reason I am incapable of dividing it into chapters before it’s done (which it’s not), and I can’t get any real answers of how many words in a scene! My novel is adult romance, and those tend to be a little longer (at least the ones I’ve read)
I’m self publishing, though, so does word count matter as much? I only ask because I’m long-winded, and I’m afraid of what the final word count will be!
Thanks for the post,
Reagan
“Whatsoever ye do, do unto the glory of God”
Reagan, analyze the books you like to read and follow that. I believe it is a good practice to make the chapters about the same length with the ones at the penultimate points of the book being a bit longer.
A good rule of thumb for words in a scene is 750, Reagan, the length of an average feature article in a newspaper. However, that’s just a starting point. Scenes vary widely in fiction. WIDELY. You can experiment with 750 words though and then see whether you feel like it fits your style and story.
Word count does and doesn’t matter if you’re self-publishing. It’s all up to your ability to entertain your readers. If you can do that over 200,000 words, without losing them even on a single chapter, that’s great! Keep in mind that publishers choose these guideliens because they see it working for them over many years. However, the industry and the market are rapidly changing. What worked in the past may not work now or for you.
Thanks, Joe! I have scenes that are 650 words long, and some that are over 1100. It just depends on how deep and meaningful the scenes are. I hope it’s good enough to keep my readers hooked, (When I get readers, that is 🙂 I’m glad they very widely, because so do I.
Gee, I wish that I had seen this 3 years ago. I had better than 145.000 words and cut it to 135,000. When I did the calculation, that would take about 14+ hours. I had already cut out some very neat “short stories”, and then cut it to 122,000+ words and sent it in. My producer who read them told me that I should not have taken them out because they were not only interesting, historical for the era, but educational. Well, it was too late. They could not be added now. So, after reading a “Trilogy”, I wished that I had done that in the beginning. It would have very good reading. NOW I KNOW AND MUST WRITE AGAIN. Thanks, Joe
What genre, Jackie?
I have stopped reading authors because not only were the word counts too long, but they actually repeated information more than once, and seemed to serve no purpose but padding. I think that we really have to balance the count with the necessity of word choice.
Yeah, no one likes repetition!
Dude, there’s reading and reading. People who say they read a book a day really just skim, IMHO. If a book is light for content, start skimming.
That’s not true. Some of us don’t do anything and/or read really fast and still comprehend.
P.S. I am one of them
Totally agree. But then I’ve read 80k books that do the same thing, trying to stretch a story to meet some magical word count number. If you want to make the story longer, it should be by threading in more story, not by bloating.
It’s really annoying when indie authors do this, as they aren’t bound by traditional word count goals, yet they pad anyway. I’d rather read a 30-40k short with tight writing than a needlessly bloated “novel.”
I have said that when given the chance, I would go back and eliminate numerous commas. Now, I am concerned about Mignon Fogarty who says that only one space should be given after a sentence. Gee, Microsoft Word would go crazy! Right Joe?
It’s true! One space after a period, not too. Two spaces is a hold over from typewriters, and it’s outdated. See our first point in this post: https://thewritepractice.com/formatting-tips
Thanks for that, Joe. It is most helpful. I personally prefer a longer book and agree with manilamac that under 70,000 words is a novella.
Personally I use word count mainly to make sure I have done enough work for the day. I try to set myself a target number of words to write. I often fail to reach it though!
Well, a novella is almost always defined as under 40,000. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novella#Word_counts). 70,000 words is generally considered a novel.
I think it’s great to use word counts as a goal. Many many great writers have used them (including Ernest Hemingway, Stephen King, and such).
My problem isn’t word count its I write short stories and I have them at about 10,000 words most times its just finding the right market.
10,000! is there a market? I think the sweet spot is 4,000 to 5,000 words. I also write short stories. I have my under 2,000 words stories and my other short stories. I think my longest short tops out around 6,000 words. My most successful shorts, though, are my 50-word stories.
Joe,
Good article and valuable info that writers want/need should know if they don’t. I also liked your article “news editor” format – finding it easy to excise the most applicable parts for my needs in order to add them to my writing notes/refs. Thank you.
The only part I might disagree with would be – “First, write a great story. Worry about your word count on the second draft.”
Trying to go back in future drafts to perform excision surgery, or grafting extra appendages on a story is certainly possible, but I find it painful, time consuming and expensive. Great stories require balanced flow and rhythm in their plot structure. This is usually accomplished in one of four ways:
1. Natural talent – exceptionally rare and even more rarely consistent,
2. Good luck – always assumed to be “Natural Talent,” but if not – it only gets the writer by the first time,
3. Editing and adjusting – re-drafting flow and rhythm is very time consuming, inefficient and costly.
4. Spending some time thinking and planning the novel in advance with regard to its flow and rhythm within the plots structure increases efficiency and provides a sense of direction and place as the author writes.
Failing to have flow and rhythm within the novels structure can cause a reader to put the book down, and or worse – not ever picking-up the book or its author again. I’ve started reading new authors and found a few like that recently and put them down. The first half of these books had little to no plot development with only character introductions and location descriptions. From an avid reader’s perspective, the current global writing industry provides far more good authors and books – than time to read them.
The word counter is like using an automobile odometer in a well-planned journey. It doesn’t tell you when to stop or where to go, but it gives you a good idea of where you are within your journey at any given point in time. It allows the writer to adjust his speed (flow) so passengers (readers) arrive at each point of interest about the time and place (rhythm) that the author had planned, or tells the author when they haven’t. It also allows some planned destinations to be canceled, because earlier points of interest turned out to play a much more important role in the trip than anticipated in the initial plan. Excessive destinations and or side trips may delay the final arrival too much – losing the traveler’s interest and participation in the writer’s journey. Lastly, and perhaps also important for many of us, the odometer (word counter) tells us when our vehicle isn’t moving forward at all and it time for us to get a move on.
I have always found it easier to cut then to add. I love revising. I hate writing first drafts. Give me a Chapter to make sing and I am in heaven.
Lots of great points here. Thank you for sharing all this great info with us!
Well that’s helpful to know.
I counted Cinder, the first book in the Lunar Chronicles (a series which I am quite taken with at the moment). The count is about 102,290 and it’s a sci-fi, fantasy, YA novel. So that’s about right. Thing is, the book was a bestseller when it came out, and as the series goes on each book gets thicker and thicker with Cress being very long. This was probably because the plot got thicker and needed more words as she introduced more characters, but maybe her publisher was a little more lenient because of her good track record? I don’t know.
Bottom line, if anyone has not read this series I highly recommend it. It may be targeted toward teens but I’ve no doubt that an adult would appreciate it just as much. You can check out the sight here: http://thelunarchronicles.com
I think the reason for this is that the kids grow as readers as they read the books. I have always thought that’s why the Harry Potter books got longer. Each year the fans are older, more sophisticated readers. If you look at the language in the Harry Potter books, it gets more sophisticated as the series goes on. I think it is one proof of the genius of J.K. Rowling.
It’s a good theory. I think that’s true for the Harry Potter books because you can see the characters growing older as you read and what starts out as a fairly innocent series matures into something, well, more mature. Reading the Lunar Chronicles, though, I wouldn’t say it’s the same case. Rather then following the characters over a matter of years we follow them over a matter of months, so there is not the same amount of growth. That’s not to say they don’t grow (because there is great character development) but the maturity level of the writing it’s self stays relatively the same. At least, that’s my opinion.
Definitely pick it up and start reading as soon as possible and you’ll get to see if you think the same thing. It’s my favorite series at the moment. Hope you enjoy it!
I’m currently listening to “Death Comes to Pemberley,” and reading “A Wrinkle in Time.” I’ll start it as soon as I finish one . I’ll have to see if it’s available on Audible. I wanted to listen to The Red Queen, but it isn’t available.
Hum, haven’t read Death Comes to Pemberley, but I do own all the Wrinkle in Time books. Not my favorites, but good none the less. I, unfortunately, can’t say the same for Red Queen. It was a big disappointment for me and I could go into a big rant/review about it, but I’ll spare you. 🙂
But who knows, maybe you’ll enjoy it. It certainly has a few hard core fans out there.
Cinder is available on Audible!
I’m half-way through Cinder. What a great book. I’m going to start a discussion on it. Anyone is welcome to join in.
I’m sure going to join. Looove talking about my favorite books. So glad you’re enjoying it!.
I think that’s definitely half of it. But I also think she was fairly heavily edited early on, and then was slowly given more free reign as her novels became mega-bestsellers.
Love the typo (?): more free reign. That hits it on the head. 🙂
Cinder is on my reading list!
Interesting, Katherine. Thank you for counting!
Sure thing. Any excuse to crack open a good book. 🙂
I don’t think about word count as much when I’m writing short stories, though I generally know the word count for them.
I know novels require a pretty hefty word count. I think having that knowledge can be daunting for someone new to novel writing, like myself. So much emphasis may be placed on the quantity of words rather than the quality and effectiveness. But I think if we take it a day at a time, setting reasonable word count goals, it does not seem impossible.
Totally George. Van Gogh said, “Great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together.” One day at a time, one batch of 500 or 1,000 words at a time, slowly these things can become something more.
Thanks for this comment, Joe. When I first began writing in earnest I baulked at the idea of having to sit and write thousands of words at one session. I found it overwhelming advice. I am so glad you say the above. This is exactly how I work and find that the stories do come together, slowly but surely.
I think many new writers are discouraged when told to write huge chunks daily, may work for some people, but for others a less stringent approach can be the way forward.
Another great post. I love how you started with a million word epic, I didn’t know there were such things. I didn’t used to care about word counts until I started participating in NaNo and learned I did better with word count goals than hour or page goals. (2,500 words is my daily average). I found this odd because for most of my writing life I have been a script writer where pages are king. This is very helpful since I am planing to traditionally publish my YA novel. Looks like 80,000 is the general sweet spot for most novels. I can do that in my sleep. j/k
On a technical note, how did you do that tweet this thing? That is awesome!
That’s a good point, Cynthia. Screenplays have much more firm rules on formatting and structure, so pages make a lot more sense, especially since the “finished” product won’t be read but watched.
For YA, keep in mind the sweet spot is lower, 65,000 words would be a better target than 80,000 which most editors seem to feel is a bit too long.
One day I picked up Alice Kuiper’s book, Life on the Refrigerator Door* and was really impressed by the skill and planning that went into this book. It was a quick read, being only a few sentences per page. It’s a very poignant story told as a series of notes written between a mother and her fifteen-year old daughter.
(* © 2007 by Alice Kuipers [text] and Kath Walker [illustrations])
Since then I have become a fan of novellas and shorter word-counts. One survey done in Canada three decades ago found that one quarter of our population is “functionally illiterate.” Back then it was just a statistic to me, but it’s become a reality as I have been helping a relative to cope with life when she can barely read and write. Bank statements, bills — even phone books — are overwhelming for her. She would like to read interesting stories, but her skill level is still Dick & Jane.
There’s a place for everything. For those of us who are avid readers, a longer word count is great. But with peoples’ reading skills declining and attention spans getting shorter, I feel writers are wise to consider cutting back on word count as much as possible — especially when self-publishing. If we write for traditional publishers, it is necessary to meet their word count guidelines, as Joe says.
I also agree with Robert McManus that in so many books info is repeated too often. I’ve also read some books where the writer wants to show as well as tell us. Where were their editors!? In the case of some books, I’d love to take a red pen to the mss and cross out all those superfluous details. But to spot them and work them out of my own writing is another story.
Yes, non-fiction books often have to add a lot of filler to meet their word count. If only we could all use a red pen on those books!
I’ve seen some show AND tell in fiction books as well. One book I read was replete with show & tell lines like this:
Jeremy growled his last words into the phone, then punched the END button. He threw the cell phone down on the table, but it skidded off and clattered to the floor.
“That dumb travel agent! He messed up big time,” Jeremy said to his brother.
Jeremy was very disgusted with the travel agent.
Well, yeah. We gathered that. Body language, you know.
Ah I see what you mean. Show AND tell, as in repeating the show with telling. Yeah, that’s not great.
My latest non-fiction book had a single message. I started with my 14,000 word “dissertation” (as they call a thesis in the UK) and expanded it to 40,000 words. Then I ran out of things to say. After agonizing over it, trying to think of “filler” as Joe Bunting calls it below, I just decided to spare my readers and published it. A lot of reviews treat the shortness as a plus!
Literacy is a fundamental human right. As a consumer, I am less concerned about word counts than I am about content. As a writer, I know I have to write tight. Every word has to count. That’s the way it is. I was saddened to read about your relative who can barely read and write. The unfortunate reality in Canada is that adult illiteracy remains largely a hidden problem. For an advanced country, Canada is not doing enough to remove the barriers to literacy.
Just a short comment, as one who is writing a book, I had wondered about word count. My book is not a novel but a sort of Memoir with a little fiction to fill in the memory gaps. When I look at all I had listed to put in my book, I cringe. At the very least, this word count will help me be sensible in the inclusions of my sections.
I can’t thank you enough for all the helpful pieces you post. So many of my questions have been answered and the encouragement really helps a lot.. After this contest is over, I plan on submitting a section a week to keep on schedule. Do you read all that is submitted? If so, it must be a big job.
I’m so glad it was helpful, JujuBee! Yes, while you have to be careful about writing for word counts, personally it helps me figure out how to structure and fill in the gaps of my story.
I don’t get to read everything, unfortunately, but we have a great team of judges and moderators. I know you’ll have a good experience (and if you don’t, let me know!).
What about non-fiction?
Sweet spot is 55K for most non-fiction, but some genres business/religious, tolerate much shorter word counts. I know several bestselling 32K word or less non-fiction books.
I have been searching for information like this for a long time. Thank you, Joe, for providing. I write scifi/drama, well, trying to, but to see that word count is a little overwhelming considering I’m currently at around 47k. However, knowing what to aim for does help in the planning.
Keep in mind these are guidelines publishers tend to use. One thing I see many very successful indie authors doing, especially in sci-fi and other genre fiction, is writing long series in 15K word installments. If you want your sci-fi to be commercially successful, definitely be thinking about a multi-book serial, whether the books are 15K words or 100K words each.
All these time, I’ve been wondering about why we should bother about word counts. I know it varies among different genre, but why? This post definitely made it clear for me. Thanks, Joe!
Awesome. I’m glad it helped, Anna!
Interesting article, thanks Joe. Publisher’s requirements aside, I truly think the story will dictate the length. I write a mix of novellas and novels-my Chase Investigations private eye series are novellas, 15-25,000 words. My action/spy series The Division are 50-60,000.
Personally, I would rather read a shorter book that held me at every page, than drift through parts of a longer book. I find even some big name quality authors ave tended to fill out some of their bestsellers, which would have been fantastic shorter works.
Good points, Angus. Are these books traditionally published or self/indie?
Hi Joe, indie published e-books, so I guess I can’t speak for traditional publishers on their preferred lengths.
Indeed, the story should dictate the length!
I am mostly a short story writer (I publish under the pen name Carmel M. Portillo), but I have written some novelettes (too long to be a short story, not long enough to be a novella) and I am working on my first novel. I self publish everything as ebooks. In my case, the story does dictate the length. I have stories that are really short flash fiction, but my average short story is between 3,000 and 5,000 words. I have no idea how many words I will wind up with in my novel. I will have a better idea as the story unfolds. Since I am publishing my novel also as an ebook, I guess in the end the story will be dictating the length, not New York publishers.
I’m curious about how people are counting words.
As I understand it, the traditional way was actually a page count * 250, but with pages required to be in 12 point Courier double-spaced, with 1″ margins. This came from the days of typewriters, of course, and became the standard manuscript format. Depending on the average paragraph length, this greatly overestimated the actual number of words. But for print publishers, it worked well, because vertical column inches was more important than the actual number of words.
With electronic formats, document size is more important than vertical length, and the count produced by word processors may make more sense. But I don’t see much discussion of this, and I’m wondering which figure people are using. It can make a huge difference. For example, my contest short story comes to 2,000 by one count (8 pages), but only 1,400 by the other, due to it being heavy in short dialogue paragraphs. I went with the 1,400 based on Ruthanne’s answer to this question in the Cafe.
Good question, RE. As you say, 250 words/page is an unreliable guide, since paragraph lengths vary and few people use monospace typefaces like Courier. The good news is that nearly all word processors allow you to count your words. Here’s a quick tutorial for that: https://thewritepractice.com/count-words/
The one I use, LibreOffice (free, in both senses of the word, and compatible with Word), provides a running count at the bottom of the window, without me having to do anything. My question is really about publishers’ expectations, since they’re rarely stated.
Ah I get what you’re saying. The guidelines above are true for most of the big, commercial publishing houses. But smaller presses may have their own preferences, and the best bet there is to look at five or ten of their most recent titles.
I don’t understand the point of writing such long books. Why not write a saga or a series? It would be way more interesting for the readers as well as for the writer. I prefer to have several volumes on the shelf than a big fat one that frightened readers. Don’t you think?
That’s certainly true for print books. Interestingly, Les Miserables was originally published as 10 “books” and all of Dicken’s tomes were serialized in magazines. It was only later that they were brought into one book. Those authors fit with your view. But in the age of eBooks, the “shelf” less relevant. Honestly, I’m LOVING reading one long, 7,000 page book, without artificial cliffhangers and arbitrary endings between “books” so they can fit with the established form for serials. As C.S. Lewis said, “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
God bless C.S. Lewis!
Joe, commenting on Word Count.
I am blind and use a screen reader. I previously commented, but it may not have “taken”.
There was one comment that re-writing and editing etc., were too time consuming, costly, and non-productive. I disagree with that point of view!
I am an octuagenarian, and I had a teacher way back when, that refused to give you an English Composition grade until the tenth re-write! By today’s standards, this probably is excessive, but I think speaks to the importance of editing and re-writing.
I am a member of the Longmont (Colorado) Writers Club, and each month we are tasked with writing a 500 words or less piece on a given prompt, to be critiqued by other members. My first rendition of these assignments are usually about 750 to 1000 words, but after editing down to the required 500 words or less, my work receives fair reviews from other members.
Best selling authors such as C.J. Box will tell you, as he has told me, that they use several “beta readers” (readers of pre-published manuscripts who give feedback to author) and usually do some re-writing after receiving feedback.
I have published four novels and I am about to launch my fifth. I have sold several short stories to regional periodicals. (http://www.jamesorytheall.com). I think all of this depends on why we write, so a writer should probably ask, “Why do I write?”, before deciding to proceed. I write for self-satisfaction and therapy – not for profit; however, I do want to be proud of my work, and I love getting good reviews, so I try to follow the guidelines the big boys and girls use!
My wife, Lorraine, an award-winning author, pointed me to your blog, and I find myself enjoying it very much. Lots of good stuff here, and we should never stop learning! Keep ’em coming.
I read one book that, not only was a difficult, but it was about 1070 pages. ATLAS SHRUGG by Ayn Rand. The only that I read in a week more than twenty years ago was The Stand, Stephen king. This book was close to 2000 pages. I don’t quite remember, but I found that book to be excellent and I could not put it down. I do believe that the publishing companies will take into consideration the author. In some ways, i do agree with you Robert because Atlas Shrugg constantly repeated information, but The stand, I never got that impression. I remember reading Gone With the Wind and never felt that it dragged. Editing is so important and I am editing my own short stories as well. Thanks and I apologize for being late with my comments on word counts. KEN
You must be a man after my own heart. I have read Atlas Shrugged 11 times. Why? It gives me hope. I can envision John Galt. As my friend and mentor. I have not seen the movies because I know the book and each character therein so well that I am certain that I will be heartily disappointed with the movie. I read The Stand several times (my favorite Steven King). I did, however, see the movie. It justified my belief that I should not see the movie of a book from which I received such fulfillment. As to the size? In both cases I read each through non-stop because I simply was unable to put it down.
Mary, please for give for getting back to you so late. Yes, I did read Atlas Shrugg and had a difficult time getting through. I was determined to finish it. What I remember most is that name John Galt.
The Character, I can’t remember her name, reminded me of Scarlett O’Hara. Yes, before say it, I read Gone With The Wind when I was younger and LOVED it” As far as the Stand, That is, next Salems Lot, Stephen King best book. I read that more than about 15 or 20 years ago in one weekend. If you ever get a chance to see the movie Atlas Shrugg. They filmed it in parts. The only good thing is the actress that played female lead. She was Great. Ayn other THE FOUNTAIN, I loved that one as well. KEN
I loved them both.
Gee….I am not sure with that. Dianna Gabaldon is very popular and her novels can go over 1000 pages. My most recent novel (currently being edited) is 151000 words. Why? Because the story takes this amount of words to be told. It may reduce to 150000 but I am sticking with it, otherwise the story has less merit and feeling. If one is to be restricted by word counts based on commercial applications, then one may have to seek self publishing because strict word counts are money decisions, not artisitic as applied to the text. I ensure there is no padding in any of the three novels I have written…none. They flow beautifully where you could start them and then suddenly realise you have read 60 pages. I think strict word counts are inappropriate because if my own work can read so well, then the amount of words is irrelevent. Some readers become disappointed when the words run out….wishing the story could continue. Why would I write to meet these strict guidelines when it would compromise quality? I am a writer since always…have never wanted to be one because I have always been one since I recall wanting to write novels as an eleven year old. So be it….maybe their formula is what they want….well then, they might miss some truly artistic and well worth reading pieces.
“My most recent novel (currently being edited) is 151000 words. Why? Because the story takes this amount of words to be told.”
thank you. I wish everyone held that same philosophy. Hence why i’m going to be self publishing.
I absolutely agree. My novels are short and light, about 40,000 and I like them that way. I tell the story my characters give me.
I think long books are fine as long as they are long for a reason.
An example that springs to mind is Donna Tartt%s Goldfinch. Good book but long. And not in a good way, but in a repetitive, waffly way. In that case, an editor or publisher intervening may have been good but I suspect that as she is such an acclaimed author noone stood up and told her to cut it back.
On the other hand, I’m writing a historical fiction which at current draft is 100k and the feedback from my readers has been we want more detail. I think a genre like that or as you mentioned fantasy just requires more words to build the world.
Thanks for writing this! I’ve found this really useful recently for helping me classify what I’ve actually started writing. Having just come out of writing short fictions that were designed to add up to a larger story which, in terms of fictional “articles”, tends to need such a specific structure and word count to seem as real as possible. It’s great to see what direction a new format and word count is adding up to in relation to the publishing world. What I’m currently writing I originally thought was going to be a novella. It now looks like it’s definitely going to need a novel to work itself out. 🙂
I’m actually a first time aspiring writer. I’m fresh into it, but the process is consuming my personal free time. Between working two jobs, attending to my daily fitness, and balancing a part time college life I don’t do much else besides sleeping. I heard about a writer’s conference recently in my home state of Alabama. I went, didn’t get in the door seeing as I live in perpetual poverty, but I did get some useful pieces of information. One specific point of discussion was the acceptable word count of a work of fantasy, my genre. 100,000 words. What I do want to ask anyone who might see this post at some point is this. How do I get any kind of feedback on my work? I’ve read thousands of fantasy novels, but I can’t get anyone to take a look at anything I’ve written. And lord, I can’t even approach a literary agent, publisher, or any kind of associated party without a completed manuscript. My own mother won’t even look at what I’ve got. She only reads the bible and watches black and white 1940’s-1960’s films. And British films… Bleh. Feedback anyone?
just saw your comment and I’ve got some hope and advice for you. I’m a soon to be first time writer who is trying to figure the whole writing scene out. I’m doing lots of research to figure out how to go about advertising and everything, including a recent suggestion of breaking my first book into two parts (which i don’t want to do). It’s a lot of work, but afterwards, I’ll know everything I need to to confidently publish and make money. My genre is sci fi/fantasy. the supposed word count is roughly 115k. My shortest manuscript is 118k, minus one that was intended to be short and holding around 23k. The way I’ve gotten feedback, other than family members reading it, is to see what other books are doing well out there and try to get a sense of what they are about, compared to my own. You mentioned a publisher; don’t fret, you don’t need one. I’ve looked into it and they cost money. If you go self publish, you can easily publish and make money without spending a dime. My recommendation is to write up the manuscript in microsoft word, use it to convert it to a PDF and edit the PDF with annotations. Go back and make the changes and wait a week or two and you’ll find new issues all over again. Trust me on this one. I’ve gone over the same manuscript that I wrote for a book twice now and found 1000 new issues. the only perfect manuscript is in your mind.
The main thing is to have patience and look into this when you can. it seems daunting, but little by little, you’ll conquer this behemoth.
Aaron, I suggest using social media to put yourself out there. Create an author Page for yourself and then find book bloggers that like to read your genre. As a book blogger and self-published author, I can tell you this will be the best way.
Side note: I’m sorry you’re having a challenge with friends and family not wanting to read. I didn’t ask family because I write erotic romance, but I did ask the best friends. One skipped the “sexy parts” and the other loved it (she’d never read an erotic romance before).
Now, if you’re looking for beta readers, those that will help you with plot, story and even character development, reaching out to book reviewers/bloggers might not be the first people to reach out to. Find book clubs and book groups through Facebook. Many have experienced beta readers in them that will give you feedback that tells you how your word choices made them feel or made them think or what they’re expecting to come next (because most authors give them chunks of the story at a time). The more experienced beta readers will be able to tell you when your characters are inconsistent, i.e. when a strong female character’s dialog comes off as weak and basically uncharacteristic. An experienced beta reader will help with continuity for your characters, their relationships and the story as a whole. I’ve beta read for several authors and did so FREELY because I knew one day I’d publish and I figured the good karma couldn’t help. From my experience, you don’t have to pay a beta reader. They are usually avid readers and love a good story. They want to help you put out the best story possible. This is all part of the writing/editing process, so be prepared to receive the feedback and go thru and make the necessary changes. Sometimes, they’ll suggest something that doesn’t work for you and that’s okay. Other times, you’ll wonder how you didn’t catch it. The problem of being too close to the story is we sometimes miss the obvious. I misspelled my antagonist’s name several times in my current work in progress.
Good luck! —Caleigh
Don’t look to family to read your stuff. Unless they’re readers in the general sense, you’re not going to make readers of them by being related to them. My mom would have read me, but she’s gone. Now my sister is the only one who reads me, but she’s a reader of others as well. My wife won’t read me, although she did when we were courting — and my sons won’t read me either. Shame on me should I try to force my writings on them. But I belong to Zoetrope, Francis Ford Coppola’s website for writers. There’s where I recommend you should be. Your writings will be reviewed there and you will review the writings of others. It’s a place for you to grow, and I highly recommend your joining it.
1.Join a writer’s group. Especially one that is interested in your genre. You need writer friends.
2. When I wrote my first novel, every time I finished 10 pages, I emailed it to a friend. She printed it and made comments and mailed it back by snail mail. When she thought my plot was dragging or she could predict where it was going, I worked hard to outsmart her. Sometimes she made great suggestions that I took.
I have completed the first 15,000 of my first novel (the first draft) and am aiming for a total of 80,000 words. I like the ideas expressed on this thread and agree with them.
I am busy writing a book, but I have the feeling that I won’t be able to publish it. ever. It is almost 10.000 words, and will maybe end as being around 15.000 words. It’s a sci-fi book, so I realize that it’s waaaay too short. My friend and parents both say that my story is amazing, that my writing is amazing, the english in it is amazing and just everything else in it.
I hope anyone has any advise for me
-a 13 year old that aspires to be a writer
Grace, that’s great that you’re writing a book. I first started writing a book when I was 12 (I’m currently 16) and I ended up losing sight of where I wanted to take it. Then, when I was 14, I started a new book and I recently finished it. The first draft of it was horrible. Maybe 40000 words of bad. But I liked the idea. I took the general idea and basically rewrote it into what is now. It is now a better story, with 82000 words. My advice to you would be to just stick with it and keep writing the story until you think it’s done (it won’t be done). Then, wait a few days minimum and read the whole thing. All of it. Really think about the story and if it would be something you would want to buy from a bookstore. If the answer is no, then edit. Add more to the story, develop strong characters. Be descriptive. Experiment with your story and have fun with it and take your time. There’s no time limit on writing and you have all the time in the world.
-Emma
I agree Emma. A book is never really finished until it is edited.
😉 <3
Scrolling through these comments and seeing a lot of good points, but I guess it’s a little beyond the scope of the article to say that this isn’t something you should worry about when drafting. First drafts (specially from a first novel) are hard enough without getting bogged down. Writers trying to scratch out their first book should, IMHO, be reminded that word count is meaningless if you don’t finish the book. The first few novels I wrote, I always shot to have between 80-100k on the first draft so there would be plenty of room to trim. I’d get stuck in the middle trying to figure out a way to add more words instead of focusing on finishing. Too much of that, and it’ll never get done. So, for a first draft, I say ignore the count altogether and get the story down. When you start editing and moving things around, you can add scenes, delete chapters, fiddle with character counts, etc and it will end up where it needs to be. A novella I’m working on now started with the goal of 25,000 words. Just a short, sweet little monster book. The first draft was 30k and the current edit is running up to 45k (Novel by SFWA standards). Story is growing out of control, just like the monster, but I just shrug and keep trying to make it good instead of worrying about wordcount. Most of the pubbing houses I have my eye on specialize in shorter fiction, and if it gets to big, I’ll just focus on the more mainstream agents. No biggie. I wrote a blog post on this topic:
http://writefarmlive.com/2017/01/noveling-101-word-count/
I have never read even a best seller without at some stage thinking that there were words just for the sake of words and skimming till the narrative continued.
I wrote one sic-fi novel that was 88,000 words and am writing a fantasy series (2 parts) that will likely be around 80,000 a piece as well. Is this too short to get a chance of being published. As I neared 70,000 words for the fantasy story I realized that one book would be too long for a first time author (likely 160,000+). So I wanted to end the first one at a good mark, the end of one conflict and the prelude to another. Do you think these word counts are far too short to have a chance?
I don’t pad for the sake of padding but I tend to be wordy. There are times when I am repetitious but I find that too many people miss a fact that was in chapter 1 and is needed in chapter 19. I have alpha and beta readers make comments about how they forgot about this or that. Since most of my work is dialog driven I can have two parties work out a problem from the clues in previous chapters to help the reader come to the same conclusion as the characters. I don’t like magical epiphanies. Everything is derived from earlier facts.
Most readers are not like us, willing to sit for hours at a time reading a novel. Most are grabbing a half hour at lunch or reading themselves to sleep at night. These readers tend to miss a lot.
Im only 11 and I’m writing a science fiction novel. And WOW there is a lot of writing to do. I hope this is a good story so far, Im not going to expect much. Im pretty sure when I send it in I will get a list of stuff I need to fix. everyone says i am a great writer but I think their lying just to not hurt my feelings.
Give me advice please!!!!!
Every time you write is an opportunity to perfect your craft, even online.
All I can say is to never give up and dont rush! Just because you begin your novel at 11 Years Old doesn’t mean you’ll finish faster. You might finish the novel when your 20! And another thing is to believe that you can. A VERY famous author who is now 53 wrote his first book when he was 12. His name is Gordon Korman.
I love Gordon Korman’s earlier works from when he was a child, even though his later writing style became more sophisticated, his original book series are more like gold to me.
I agree!!
Thank you so much for this helpful article!
I’m basically a short story writer and my word count averages around 3,000 words. I have also written a couple of “novelettes” which average around 7,000 to 8,000 words. I self-publish for e-readers.
“The idea word count” I think “ideal” was the word you intended. Please don’t try to give me advice if you don’t care enough to proofread your own work.
We are human and make mistakes. Don’t focus on the negative. Be optimistic!
1.75 million words long is more like 4000 pages not 7000. It might just be because you were reading it on a kindle, but the book itself would be about 4000 pages. That’s 3000 pages different.
I just completed (for now, anyway) a 44,301 word manuscript. I feel that the way it is now completes the story and if I do any more word additions it will thin it weaken the story due to wordiness. Could I possibly leave it at that number? I still have a final edit to do to it and am anticipating the number to change after this final edit, probably going down at least a few more words. Would this word count or something in the vacinity thereof keep agents and publishing companies from looking at it?
Hey, I’m a ten-year-old, and I’ve written an 18,000-word book. I’d say it’s a book for tweens or early teens. Any chance I can get it published?
I want to be a novelist. I have already started my first novel and at chapter 13